When Marshal Mcluhan said “Medium is the message” he was wrong! It’s not what it is, it’s what you do with it. And if you don’t believe me, I can always throw the rusty knife example (no pun intended) at you. It goes like this: A knife is bad if you kill someone with it, but it’s good if you cut an apple with it.
So why am I ranting about something that makes no sense? Maybe because I want to start converting aluminum cigar holders into fancy Miswak Holders with Arabic calligraphy on them. Now that I’m getting emails and phone calls from all around the world, saying “Haram brother!” “Bida brother!” you understand why I had to give such a lengthy and defensive introduction to this concept.
You have to admit it will be pretty useful. I’ve seen brothers carry their Miswak in their dirty pockets, dashboards, mouths and other places which might not pass the censors – have some concern for hygiene ikhwati fillah!
Comment and let me know:
(1) How this idea flies with you?
(2) How much you would pay for it, with or without Miswak inside?
(3) Would you get it as a gift for someone else?
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39 Responses
Snappy. I like it. Word on the hygiene comment. Can’t comment on price or whether I’d buy it for someone as I have no idea what a cigar holder costs and don’t know anyone who uses a miswak, but I do have an interesting miswak-use-sighting: by a trader on the trading floor, kinda threw me off for a second there.
I’m not sure what the mechanics of a miswak are so I could be off here..when a part of it is used, do you snip off the top and continue downward like a pencil? If so, it’d be pretty cool, if this product would serve not just as a miswak case, but as a tool to use your miswak. ex: if it were like a lipstick with a dial on the bottom to push the miswak up when you open the top (would help as your miswak gets smaller, and would make the product user friendly for all sizes of miswaks). So you’d never have to take the miswak out of it’s holder to use it.
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Majid Mirza Reply:
4.27.2010
Salam Fezzik:
Awesome comments as usual.
On the trading floor?! That’s priceless. Dude, imagine you could walk up to that guy and say “I would recommend you get a Product Muslim Miskwak Holder for that sir.”
Push-up dial sounds absolutely fantabulous. Problem with such good ideas is that you put us PM guys in a fix – now I actually have to go find someone who could make something like this for us!
Question for you: Do Muslimas (Muslim women) use miswak as well? I’ve never seen anyone use it in public.
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fezzik Reply:
4.29.2010
Wa alaykum assalam Majid,
nope, never seen a Muslima use a miswak. I think it just has to do with it being a personal hygiene product and it just feels awkward, even impolite, to use it in public. it’s like brushing your teeth, clipping your nails, cleaning your ears…really awkward doing any of those things in public. I’m not sure why, but guys seem to be a little less fazed by the awkwardness of it all. Perhaps it’s because the miswak is seen less as a hygiene product and more of a religious observance? so it’s as much a part of one’s religious identity as wearing a thoub or carrying a tasbih.
In the private sphere, I haven’t seen any Muslim sisters use the miswak either, probably because the toothbrush is a pretty good alternative or because we haven’t paid too much attention to its advantages or it’s just not as accessible.
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Aatif Reply:
4.29.2010
Not sure about the “lipstick” style push up design. Does that mean the miswak will be stuck in the tube and you cannot remove it, only to use it by the amount protruding from the tube? ie. when it’s in your mouth the tube is at the end. I think most like to let the miswak soak a bit in there mouth, and other actions like removing bark or just chillin while gnawing on it, would be made very awkward by having a large tube at the end very awkward.
I would rather have a slide in-slide out tube, like a normal cigar holder, but not sure what material to us to make it “more” hygienic… as this is going in your mouth (I realize a cigar does too, but not using a cigar as a metric for hygiene
). I’m not sure how long you can keep a miswak, that has been in “soaked” your mouth, in a concealed tube without the inside of that tube getting dank after a while with static saliva. Maybe a cleaning mechanism would be a nice add? Basically a small q-tip like stick that is reusable. I figure it’s appropriate for anything you are using to store something you clean your teeth with.
Also, not sure about sisters… then again, I’ve only ever seen 2 or 3 people who are “miswak users”, and coincidentally they were guys.
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majid Reply:
5.9.2010
Makes complete sense Aatif. After you explained it, it does seem quite inconvenient to be hanging on the cylinder at one end and trying to clean your teeth with the other end. Slide in and out sounds good but cleaning mechanism is a bit tricky.
I love the concept. Especially if the miswak holder is flexible for different miswak sizes.
In terms of calligraphy, that would be nice, but I think it is best to avoid any qur’anic verses or stuff with the word “Allah” on it (such as the one in the photo) so that it can be easy to discard when necessary.
You should also consider the already existing method of keeping the miswak in its case, but lots of miswaks are bought in bunches held with rubber bands so that will definitely be helpful.
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Majid Mirza Reply:
4.27.2010
Salam Morsey:
Flexible holders makes sense bro. I would think a foam lining on the inside would do the trick so the inside would take the shape of the miswak, but I don’t know if that would effect the taste of it or now. Does foam have any taste?
P.s ProductMuslim makes us have the weirdest conversations eh? Does foam have any taste
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AbdelRahman Elsayed Morsey Reply:
4.27.2010
hahaha no … I meant different lengths. Like a slider up and down.
In terms of, thickness, I think if you have the diameter accommodate the largest thickness out there, it will do the trick.
No need for foam in your mouth. Are you hungry, Majid?
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Aatif Reply:
4.29.2010
AR++ about the Qur’anic verses.
hmmm, what could be done? Custom calligraphy with your name or other desired words? Make a character limit? Remember when iPods would sell with custom engravings on the back? They still do that? I have no idea how that is relevant, but my mind wondered for a sec.
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AbdelRahman Elsayed Morsey Reply:
5.1.2010
Custom calligraphy would be too much. We could have different designs or calligraphic texts on it… that would be good. Just have like 3 or 4 different designs on all of them produced on a mass production scale.
Custom calligraphy may be good if we make it some sort of jewelry lol. Like $20-30 price range. But to get something cheap $5-15 I don’t think custom calligraphy would work out. Would it?
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majid Reply:
5.9.2010
Yep custom calligraphy sounds a bit far fetched. 4-5 different designs (limited editions maybe) would be cool. We haven’t yet had a discussion about where we would sell these?
Any ideas about different promotional channels for the Fancy Miswak Holder?
I think it’s very classy. I can see the Imam or a young student of knowledge carrying one of those around! Actually it would make carrying the miswak around easier for everyone. I could just keep it in my pocket with my keys and phone without it getting dirty. With a custom inscription and a pen clip I’d pay $12-$15.
I agree with not having any Quranic literature on the it; could end up taking it to the bathroom or dropping it on the floor.
I like the idea of having a push up mechanism…although you’d still have to peel off the bark with your teeth!
A couple of considerations:
- miswaks come in all lengths and diameters, so you have to make sure your miswak fits before buying.
- it would be nice to sell the case and miswak as a package. That way you ensure it fits.
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Majid Mirza Reply:
4.27.2010
Salam Kash:
If you find it classy then we are good to go! I’m not even kidding.
Thanks for sharing the price point that’s really helpful. Would other care to comment on this front?
Makes sense about not have the religious scripture to avoid complications. Custom inscription definitely sounds wicked! Soon we would be competing with Apple and people would be thinking: “Should I buy an ipod for my friend, or a Miswak holder?” Tough decisions.
This feedback is so good, I think I’m dreaming. Wait let me pinch myself…
OUCH!
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AbdelRahman Elsayed Morsey Reply:
4.27.2010
hmmm… nah. I say $5. No need for more. We’re talking about a hollow aluminium pen with no ink. This is how my brain works when it comes to price. I look at how much it would cost to produce it.
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tareq Reply:
5.4.2010
I would recommend pricing it a bit higher, from $25.00 to $40.00.
Correct me if I’m wrong but it’s targeted towards a niche market and hence production costs will be higher.
Also, people value things that are higher priced. We’re not talking about any miswak holder, we’re talking about one that people are proud to carry around. Something made from high quality materials that is prestigious.
majid Reply:
5.9.2010
I second that. People must be completely thinking we are profit starved business men eh?
Honestly speaking, I think it would cost much more than we are speculating to make a really good product like this. It’s an entirely new design, and would take some start-up costs/design work to get underway. I guess, you shouldn’t price higher just because people value it more – the value should actually be in the product itself and that’s the aim with the Fancy Miswak Holder.
majid Reply:
5.9.2010
Salam Morsey:
To be honest, I think $5 is a bit on the low side
If we want to make a good product it will cost way more than that to even produce. Imagine, sourcing these tubes from China (product + delivery), then getting them printed, then adding the miswak, then adding a clip, and possible putting a clipper in as well. I don’t think we could do it in less than $20 – Allahua’lam.
AbdelRahman Elsayed Morsey Reply:
6.23.2010
I would recommend you reconsider your target market. The purpose is to make miswak holding easier and more practical. We should have an intention that perhaps this product could make miswak holding stand more widespread, anything other than a niche.
Also, since this is a new product out there perhaps a penetration pricing strategy may be best to get people to try it out at the start. Hence my low price range.
I am talking here on a customer perspective. If I see this miswak holder for > 20 I will not buy it. I would rather cope with the slight inconvenience of wrapping my miswak in a free plastic bag whenever I want to use it and put this money somewhere else. Not to mention that $20 can bring me A LOT of miswaks.
I understand where you are coming from, though.
There are two possible customers I could think of:
1. Someone who already uses miswak and would find this product useful (don’t think would accept > 20 price range)
1. Someone who doesn’t use miswak because he finds it difficult to keep it clean and is excited by this new product (would probably accept higher price range)
majid Reply:
8.9.2010
Salam Morsey:
If you scroll down to Semrah’s comment you will see a very interesting niche market defined:
“As previously mentioned, majority of Muslimahs I have met do not use a miswak. But I think if this product allows miswaks to be packaged and carried around in a hygienic way, more sisters would consider the use of it. Perhaps a version that is especially pleasing for the sisters. It could look almost like a cosmetic product in a purse to any other onlooker.”
What do you think of this? Do you have any Sisters who would like to comment?
Majid.
AbdelRahman Elsayed Morsey Reply:
6.23.2010
UNLESS the quality is *clearly* worth the price.
Salam Alaykum Brothers,
Having a miswak holder is a great idea, this idea has been developed in the Middle east.
There is product called miswak holder ou there, however it is not made with a good quality material. I wanted to buy a small quantity of them from Saudi Arabia and sell them in the UK to see if it was going to catch on.
Miswak companies have also seized the opportunity and are now selling their miswak with plastic holders. However thse are branded with the companys logo and do not look nice at all.
I was thinking of designing and producing as you mentioned a miswak holder of higher quality. In aluminuim or stainless steel with a nice design and shape, a clip to keep in your shirt pocket.
It is funny you mentioned cigars, I was also thinking of using the cigar cutter to cut your miswak once you used it for a bit. I am sure brothers sometimes want to cut the tip of the misawk but cannot do it as they are somewhere where they can have access to a knife, so imagine a nice quality miswak cutter.
I think a miswak holder and cutter will encourage more brothers and sisters to use miswak and carry out around with them everywhere.
Imagine the reward the person who produces such a thing will get when more muslims start using the hijab because of his product. Loads of rewards
Anyway, inshallah if someone takes this project on, I will be happy to distribute his product in the UK
Wassalamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullah
[Reply to this Comment]
Youssel Al Maghrabi Reply:
4.28.2010
Sorry about the grammatical mistakes, I wrote the message so quickly as I was too excited when i saw this post
I think I also mentioned hijab instead of miswak in one of the sentences
apologies
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majid Reply:
5.9.2010
Walaykumussalam warahmatullah Youssef:
Masha’Allah what amazing comments. It’s so amazing how we have the opportunity to connect and collaborate across continents these days – I’m quite speechless.
Both your ideas about the pocket clip and miswak cutter and great. If we could put this all into a 2-in-1 solution I think it would work very well. The more time we spend with ProductMuslim the more we realize the importance of rapid prototyping. We really need to figure out a quick and dirty way to bring these ideas to life and then develop them as we progress further. I am thinking about Cigar Holders all over the world and what happens to them after use. Do people just chuck them in the garbage or recycling? What if there was a way to collect all these used Cigar Holders, clean and de-brand them?
We will have to think about this a little more.
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Semra Reply:
7.30.2010
SubhanAllah, that is so true! If the miswak holder really became as such and had that clipping feature – I could imagine many Muslimahs taking up the use of miswaks as well
As previously mentioned, majority of Muslimahs I have met do not use a miswak. But I think if this product allows miswaks to be packaged and carried around in a hygienic way, more sisters would consider the use of it. Perhaps a version that is especially pleasing for the sisters. It could look almost like a cosmetic product in a purse to any other onlooker.
As for foam lining inside the holder, I would think its better if there isn’t any. Its easier to clean and there are fewer chances of bacteria build up that may occur with foam.
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majid Reply:
8.9.2010
Hmm…
When you said “It could look almost like a cosmetic product in a purse to any other onlooker.” it immediately made me think of the customized iPods. Now that would be cool! Pink, Green, Blue, Red and Yellow, with your name engraved on it. Wonder how much that would cost though!
Awesome ideas. Please comment on other concepts as well:
http://www.productmuslim.com/category/concepts/
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I really like this idea. I have always had to carry around my miswak in a plastic bag. Yuck. When will the design be available? I would pay around $10 max for this.
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majid Reply:
8.9.2010
Cool. Thanks for the feedback. I think $10 sounds like a reasonable figure. It could come with one packet of refills as well.
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AbdelRahman Elsayed Morsey Reply:
8.9.2010
$10 is good with me. I would buy it.
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I do not like bismillahir rahamir rahim written on it.
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majid Reply:
8.9.2010
Salam Aminah:
Yeah, I see what you mean. We had quite a few people uncomfortable with that because it’s also restrictive in terms of taking into the washroom etc.
Maybe a nice Middle Eastern design would work better?
Majid.
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hi, i think the miswak holder is a great idea, however i suggest maybe some thing that is made out of natural fibers. so far the plastic wrap which some miswaks are being packaged in are a terrible holder because when the miswak is wet, it tends to grow a small about of fungus. i think the aluminum will do the same. its best to let the miswak dry out, but with a busy schedule, keeping the miswak out for while to dry is an inconveniece. what would be great is a way to quick dry the miswak, and then put it in the holder… maybe some type of fan or something inside the holder…
by the way, as a muslim, why would u source the product from china? its a terrible idea with the way it will be produce with sub standard materials and all the shipping involved… definitely a bad idea. produce local, sell local. i cant believe muslims are talking about this and wanting to rape the environment in the process of trying to get rewards from Allah (swt)… what is wrong with the muslims here! oh wait, maybe they really arent muslims, just people posing as muslims…
im thinking seriously about changing my faith since so many muslims seem to be representing islam physically but not in practice. any suggestions on a new faith? maybe judaism…
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Assalaamu alaikum
I think this is a wonderful idea mashaAllah. Any idea when it will be available to buy?
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PLZ CAN U ADVICE WHERE IN THE UK I CAN BUY THEM. I THINK ITS A GREAT IDEA
JAZAKALA KHER
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I have been looking for this accessory for the longest time!
Masya Allah please work on it, I am sure the idea will catch on fast! Anything that allows us to emulate the Beloved’s sunnah in a more ready fashion should be encouraged, and will indeed be a blessed effort.
Good thinking, and may this become a reality!
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salam~ hope this concept can be produced asap. insyAllah based on the ideas altogether the trial product will be marketable and i’ll be delightful to be the dealer for asian market provided the price’s affordable for all! may Allah eases the production all the way through. barokallahufikum~
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Asa, have skimmed through the discussion, a few pointers i thought would be important for the Miswak holder:
1) The holder shouldnt have Quranic verses or the name of Allah (SWT) on it. Reasons:
a) The Miswak can fall by mistake on floor, that would lead to disrespect of Verse/Name
b) Cannot be taken into the toilet (as cited above)
2) Would be better to develop a design less similar to cigar holder. Reasons:
)
a) To avoid controversy altogether, better to launch a product thats accepted widely minus controversy, good for business, good for soul.
b) The Miswak requires greater care, and has wider usage. Thus the holder could have the following characteristics:
i) Perforated – so as to aerate the Miswak
ii) Cap like that of a Pen, can be fixed easily inside purses or external purse pockets, and can also be fixed onto shirt pocket.
iii) Special olive colour for Miswak from Olive Tree (thats my personal liking
iv) NO ALUMINUM – linked to Alzeihmers. Why add another source of aluminum in our diet? Maybe some PFOA free or whatever-toxic-letter-free plastic would do?
Anyhow, came across this forum while researching on Miswak Holder for Toilets, rather than for on the go. Would be great if anybody knows of Miswak Holders to be placed in toilets. Cant just place in mug, fungus starts growing on the bottom, cant just place it flat since thats not hygienic, dont want to place in the plastic Miswak holder since thats not well aerated. I wish there was a Miswak Grabber of sorts, that just holds onto the Miswak from wherever one pushes it in, in the grabbing clip; that would keep the miswak in mid-air, well aired and would prevent it from coming in contact with toilet surfaces.
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Looks great but personally to be honest carrying a miswak itself is more efficient in regards to weight and space in the pocket, although a holder is a great idea and there are those who would surely buy it but the production cost and the price I believe a person will be willing to pay would be £3-£4 max would be very tight.
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Excellent idea, I had a similar idea but I wanted to have them made to look like a pen. Your idea is better, as it also recycles. One concern I had is the reaction between saliva and aluminium. As for Bidaa, give me a break, a lot of people spend most of their time accusing others of bidaa rather than learning about our glorious deen.
Salamz
Ahmad
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Salaam alaikum,
I just came across this page randomly as I was searching for a bit online about the miswak. I only tried the miswak for the first time yesterday actually after getting a stick to try out from ebay. Have seen some miswak holders on there, but as one of the comments stated, I have only seen the plastic ones which come with some of the sticks.
I think another reason not to use qur’anic texts etc, is because there are some non-muslims who are into using natural/organic products who are aware of using sticks to complement their dental hygeine. Rather, just a pretty design/pattern might be more suitable.
I am slightly concerned about the having a clip on the holder idea though – I wouldn’t want to encourage people using miswaks in public, it’s quite unpleasant to watch. I’ve seen some girls using it in the tube and they spat the chewed up pieces or bark on the floor, whilst showing everyone their teeth and gums.
Would you consider designing something for people to spit in discretely?!
Alternatively, you can just purchase a toothbrush holder from wilkos for about 60p, or put it back into the plastic packaging if you bought sealed.
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