Comments on: Concept: Random Number Generator (RNG)

By: sameera hashim

sameera hashim — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 06:04:27 +0000

monopoly and other board games are a way to psychologically program a person to think a certain way… monopoly for instance programs the sub-concious mind to exploit everyone just to make a $… pretty sick and dispicable… something that ALL the Messengers of Allah and Muhammad came to eliminate. you people make me cry… where are the real muslim men, the true ones who do business to help others and earn their places in heaven? how can u be so dense not to realize what is happening here…

SELFLESS, not Selfish look it up in the dictionary

i think i will marry a non-muslim since all the “muslim men” seem to be less than even the non-muslim…

By: hussein a

hussein a — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 05:56:55 +0000

ok, i think people (notice i am not saying muslims…) here are missing the point… it seems you all want to ignore the spirit of the hadith. similar to what the jews did with their scriptures…

shaloam

By: Bruce

Bruce — Wed, 19 May 2010 17:28:33 +0000

Creative way to think out of the box, however you need to take this idea through a scholar before implementing it. What makes you so sure that using RNG isn’t just a different way of committing the same haram? Could the concept of wasting time with random numbers coming from dice BE the haram (not a shape of a die in and of itself)? Since USING dice in a game like backgammon is makes it haram, how are you sure that just using an RNG instead of dice in backgammon/risk could not fall under the same category of haram?

I am not saying it is haram. I just want these questions to be answers so that efforts not go to waste by going with the concept and get all excited about it then it turns out scholars rejected it.

By: AbdelRahman Elsayed Morsey

AbdelRahman Elsayed Morsey — Tue, 27 Apr 2010 16:01:51 +0000

Jazak Allahu khairan for asking the Imam of Waterloo Masjid for this. It makes so much sense what he’s saying.

By: Majid Mirza

Majid Mirza — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 23:19:57 +0000

Okay so I will cut the suspense and share with you an idea a Sister had. I wanted her to comment here herself, but she is busy these days so she asked me to go ahead and share it.

If in fact, this hadith refers to the “randomness” of the object as opposed to the game being played or gambling aspect, the way randomness can be removed is by bringing a Start-Stop function into the device. This is equivalent to a silly game played by people where you try to Start and Stop a stopwatch closes to zero. The reason this can work is because there is actual skill involved. So for example, suppose you are playing Monopoly and you badly need a 4 to land on a particular property, your skill with being able to stop the Random Number Generator as it zooms through the number 4 will play a huge part in your outcome. Of course it wouldn’t be called a Random Number Generator then.

Is it just me or does that sound like an awesome and innovative solution? Also we need new name suggestions for the device!

By: Muhammad Abduhu

Muhammad Abduhu — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 21:29:17 +0000

What is this idea that you’re talking about?

By: Kashif Umer

Kashif Umer — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 17:40:30 +0000

After I looked at this post again, I realized that maybe I’m thinking too literally (maybe we all are). So, I decided to ask the Imam of Waterloo Masjid about the ahahdith.

He told me not to focus on the elements of the game, but rather the games themselves. There is ample evidence that randomness is not haram, so how can it be the die in and of itself? He explained that the problem stems from what Abdelrahman mentioned below, wasting time. In this case the dice are used in a game that wastes time and so we should not ‘play’ with them. He interprets this as avoiding the games themselves. If you were to use a die to determine the battering order of a 6 person team, he said this would be acceptable.

This is just one opinion on the matter and Allah (swt) knows best.

By: fezzik

fezzik — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 05:36:32 +0000

hmm that’s an interesting point but I can’t come to terms with the fact that something that is “close to being random”, i.e. an RNG determined by an algorithm would be permissible but another that has its randomness based on natural phenomenon would be impermissible. You could argue that natural phenomenon too follow an algorithm (laws of physics), even though we may not have been able to convert it into code. The former just seems like avoiding the same result by finding a loophole. Allah knows best.

Some thing that I found useful: http://www.islam4all.com/chap-10i.htm#c7

–> shows the distinction between gambling and drawing lots. Gambling is impermissible, drawing lots is, even though both have the random element in it. I think we need to put more thought into what is being prohibited when “games of chance” are being prohibited.

$0.02…Allah knows best.

By: AbdelRahman Elsayed Morsey

AbdelRahman Elsayed Morsey — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:23:06 +0000

And sorry guys for my ridiculous grammar.
is what* makes it haram
to be answered*
efforts are* not gone* to waste

By: AbdelRahman Elsayed Morsey

AbdelRahman Elsayed Morsey — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 19:08:45 +0000

I am not saying it is haram. I just want these questions to be answers so that efforts not go to waste by going with the concept and get all excited about it then it turns out scholars rejected it.